No Gatekeepers: An Interview with Nisi Shawl

Interview by Sharon Dodge

Nisi Shawl has many short stories and articles in print, in addition to reviewing books for the "Seattle Times" and serving as a board member of the Clarion West Writers Workshop. Her fiction has been shortlisted for awards including the Theodore Sturgeon Award, the Gaylactic Spectrum Award, and the Carl Brandon Society Parallax Award. "Cruel Sistah" appeared in last year's volume of The Year's Best Fantasy and Horror.

Reflection's Edge: With your article on "Transracial Writing for the Sincere" and your book and workshop of the same name, "Writing the Other: Bridging Cultural Differences for Successful Fiction," it's not surprising that your work is very racially diverse. But age also seems to appear diverse in your work, children featuring in a number of them. Is this something you normally set out to do?

Nisi Shawl: I have always thought that children got short shrift as fictional agents. Subjectively speaking, a large portion of our lives is spent as children. Do you recall how much time a week used to be, how much experience was jammed into those seven days when you were five? It’s the rough equivalent of the month you live through at the age of 30. So many important things happen while you’re a child. *Everything* that happens when you’re a child is important, even your boredom.

I did notice for several years that most of my stories had children in them. Even if the protagonist wasn’t a little girl, she was there somewhere, in the background, watching. More recently, a common theme seems to be music.

I’m 52. For many years I looked much younger I actually was, but that seems to have changed lately. I’m now experiencing a different sort of discrimination based on age. It disturbs me just as much. I haven’t been writing about older people, though. A few dead ones.

RE: I laughed a great deal when I read your comment that "I wonder sometimes what kind of career I'd have if I followed suit with tales of stalwart Space Negroes and an unexplained absence of whites." Although you back your assertions to write a diverse group of characters with some pointers on research, I found it amusing, not to mention a relief, to hear you say that - that it's better to fall flat on your face that not to try at all. That said, what about when writers do fall flat, despite their best efforts? Where do you from there?

NS: If you fall flat, the first thing to do is acknowledge that you’re down on your face in the dust. Don’t deny it. Really pay attention to what you’ve done, where your mistakes lie. Think about them. Feel where you are. That’s the only way you’ll get anyplace better.

If you need help, ask for it.

Recognize that you may not be able to salvage the particular piece of writing that you’ve failed with.

Also recognize that you are not going to please everyone. It’s just impossible. So don’t make that your standard for success.

And finally, don’t look for gatekeepers, for someone who can give you the “Person-of-Color Seal of Approval.” They don’t exist.

RE: I've always loved how your stories feel so organized; how well the sections pull together, and how quickly you create another world with a few details. What do you feel are the keys to creating a strong story, a strong sense of place?

NS: Thank you! My stories don’t feel organized to me—I mean, maybe they are, but that’s not what writing them is like. I do pay attention to creating a sense of place with a few “telling details” (as Delany and others call them). I have two models in this regard: Colette, and Raymond Chandler. Neither of them is in the least bit SF, but for both, inanimate objects are characters. I read them, and try to do what they do.

RE: Writing and teaching are both tough. What has kept you involved?

NS: Well, writing is just a power trip for me. If I do it well enough, I can completely take over someone else’s mind for the duration of the story. I love music, too—I was in a couple of bands, and have maybe 36 songs I’ve written. But music is so collaborative. Too many egos, and the band breaks up and you have to teach the arrangements to a new drummer....I once got in a fight with a guitarist, and she ripped my dress off and pulled me down the stairs. I’ve never given myself that kind of trouble. Same with movies: you have to share the creative power. Of course, I don’t really have total control over what my audience reads in my writing. But I have an easier time pretending I do.

Is teaching tough? I find it such a thrill! It’s almost as much fun as writing.

RE: "Momi Watu" is one of the more believable dark science fiction stories I've read, with its scarce water, disease-bearing engineered insects, and post-conflict era - and scarier, to me, because of it. Did you know when you were writing it about the genetically engineered insects scientists have been tinkering with in the past seven years or so? Is your work often in response to actual events?

NS: Are genetically engineered insects a reality of the past seven years? I started writing Momi Watu in 1992, during the Clarion West workshop. I rewrote it and expanded a few times over the years, but the basic story was in place long before 2000. That makes me prescient, I guess.

My work is generally a response to deeply felt emotions, or ethical oxymorons. Things that piss me off or scare me or bother me. “Momi Watu” draws on my experience of having a young friend stay the night with me, then getting a call from her mom explaining that she probably had head lice. We had slept in the same bed - not in a Michael Jackson sort of way, just slept - and I had to face the possibility that we were both infested. I guess I feel about head lice the way Octavia E. Butler felt about bot-flies.

RE: Can you tell me about any upcoming work?

NS: Sure. In November, an anthology called Detroit Noir will be coming out from Akashic Books. I’ve got a story in there: “Little Horses,” my first crime story. It was inspired in part by an old Southern lullabye sung by Odetta, and in part by a comment a former white friend of mine made about wanting a black child. Not only is this my first crime story, but I share the table of contents with Joyce Carol Oates and Loren D. Estleman! I’m so psyched about that.

Aqueduct Press will be publishing a collection of my short stories sometime early next year. I have to rewrite one of the stories before we sign a contract, so maybe I shouldn’t say anything, but I truly believe it’s going to happen. The current working title for the collection is Filter House. That may change, though.

I sold a story called “Dynamo Hum” to an anthology called Afro-Future Females. That will be published by Ohio State University. I’ve signed a contract, but I don’t know when it’s coming out. Some time next year. The story’s a sort of pastiche of Frank Zappa and H.G. Wells.

And I’m about ready to send out my most recent story, “Something More.” That’s a fantasy based on the life and death of British singer Sandy Denny.

See what I mean about the music?

RE: You've spent a lot of time teaching, reviewing, and writing about the process of fiction writing; what would you say to a young writer just starting out?

NS: Figure out what you want. Then go get it.

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Sharon Dodge is RE's Editor-in-Chief.